The Source Code (MUST READ)

The Source Code (MUST READ)

Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 11:02

.kkrieger is great. But before that, there was this:

AfbeeldingAfbeeldingAfbeeldingAfbeelding <--- Deleted Images

Back in '97, Sanction made this demo, showing a recreation of the first level of Descent in only 4K! It's even got music!
http://www.sanction.de/
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 11:09

From: Acrylamid

About this whole compression issue... there's an idea I had a while ago, that could shrink every movie down to less than a kb, the only problem is, you'd need really fast computers (or a lot of time) to "decompress" them.
In the file sharing program eMule, each file (<4 GB) gets its unique 128-bit MD4 hash. Wouldn't this mean that when you know the MD4 hash of a certain version of a movie, your PC could create a file starting with 00000...01, hash it, check the newly generated hash with the wanted hash and if the hashes didn't match, create the next file (00000...11). After a long time, your computer would have created the right file, the hashes would match and you would have the movie without having to download it, in a way all the information was contained in the MD4 hash...
http://www.amule.org/wiki/index.php/MD4_hash
Would this be possible with very fast computers and a lot of patience or where is my mistake?
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 11:10

From: Iapetus

Silver wrote:
You know, you may all think I'm retarded, but seriously: if somebody discovers a totally new way of compressing data that no one knows about, of course you think "impossible, retarded". Because if you didn't, you'd be the one working on that code.

No.

It's a comforting idea for the tin-foil hat conspiracy theorists, but this isn't a question of different types of compression. It's a question of whether what's being discussed is possible at all, regardless of the approach.

You're like someone posting about a technique someone discovered for turning lead into gold through purely chemical reactions. "Ah," you might cry, "but of course you don't believe it's possible, or you'd be out there turning lead into gold yourselves." But it's still fundamentally impossible, to the point that we don't care what you think the technique is, or how many incomprehensible pseudo-science websites you point us at.

Same holds true with this compression issue.
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 11:11

From: Iapetus

Acrylamid wrote:
About this whole compression issue... there's an idea I had a while ago, that could shrink every movie down to less than a kb

You can create a hash of any size.

So let's take your idea further - from a movie, we create a single-bit hash. Then from that single bit of data we can reconstitute the original movie through the process you describe.

Here are some movies for you to download:

Spiderman 2: 0
Constantine: 1
Battlefield Earth: 1
Star Wars Episode 2: 1
Robots: 0

Enjoy.
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 11:13

From: Hitokage

Dsal wrote:
Yep. But I suppose it's possible, although unlikely, that for any given block of data, there is a procedural algorithm that could precisely generate it. Maybe if someone was able to construct a huge database of mappings of all possible block values (heh...) to a generating procedural algorithm it could work. Then they'd just look up the block in the database and only output the procedural algorithm parameters to the file. You could then take the output and repeat the process until there was no further compression realized.

It'd be easier in a programming sense to just itterate digits of pi until you came across the desired values. :P
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 11:15

From: Nerevar

Acrylamid wrote:
About this whole compression issue... there's an idea I had a while ago, that could shrink every movie down to less than a kb, the only problem is, you'd need really fast computers (or a lot of time) to "decompress" them.
In the file sharing program eMule, each file (<4 GB) gets its unique 128-bit MD4 hash. Wouldn't this mean that when you know the MD4 hash of a certain version of a movie, your PC could create a file starting with 00000...01, hash it, check the newly generated hash with the wanted hash and if the hashes didn't match, create the next file (00000...11). After a long time, your computer would have created the right file, the hashes would match and you would have the movie without having to download it, in a way all the information was contained in the MD4 hash...
http://www.amule.org/wiki/index.php/MD4_hash
Would this be possible with very fast computers and a lot of patience or where is my mistake?

Hashing isn't a 1-1 match. In fact, you can "fake" MD4 hashes (although it is supposedly quite difficult). So you can't go backwards and try to make a file that matches the hash.
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 11:17

From: Mister Zimbu

Acrylamid wrote:
About this whole compression issue... there's an idea I had a while ago, that could shrink every movie down to less than a kb, the only problem is, you'd need really fast computers (or a lot of time) to "decompress" them.
In the file sharing program eMule, each file (<4 GB) gets its unique 128-bit MD4 hash. Wouldn't this mean that when you know the MD4 hash of a certain version of a movie, your PC could create a file starting with 00000...01, hash it, check the newly generated hash with the wanted hash and if the hashes didn't match, create the next file (00000...11). After a long time, your computer would have created the right file, the hashes would match and you would have the movie without having to download it, in a way all the information was contained in the MD4 hash...
http://www.amule.org/wiki/index.php/MD4_hash
Would this be possible with very fast computers and a lot of patience or where is my mistake?

Let's do a little test run on a small file. 2kb sound reasonable to you?

2kb = 2048 bytes = 16384 bits
To brute force this, you would have to try only 2^16384 combinations.

Let's say that it took one microsecond to generate a file and test a combination.

Generating the file would take 3.7E4912 years.

I'm not *that* patient.

Granted, I'm not good at math, but I think I did this right.
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 11:20

From: Warm Machine

Gofreak wrote:


This is the best part of this thread. Most impressive. 96KB!!

(I kinda got "stuck" midway through, controls are clunky etc. but..wow)

I wonder if Will Wright hired these guys? I wonder how readable their code is? :lol:

The produckt relies heavily on model instancing and positioning and deforming those instances with basic values. I believe the Jak and Daxter engine does something quite similar for the creation of the environments. The level editor would be 3d-space where you bring in the environment model and duplicate it over and over again then only export the coordinates as opposed to the total mesh you've created. Very clever concept though limited to the number of base objects you bring in.
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 11:22

From: Dilbert

Iapetus wrote:
Here are some movies for you to download:

Spiderman 2: 0
Constantine: 1
Battlefield Earth: 1
Star Wars Episode 2: 1
Robots: 0

Enjoy.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 11:23

From: CrunchyB

Border wrote:
What truly amazes me is that a man as Roel Pieper, who is a professor of Computer Science no less, could fall for his story, to the point where he invested a huge amount of capital. If his role in this story is really as reported in the media, his credibility as a computer scientist has been seriously tarnished. In my opinion, the University of Twente, with which Pieper is associated, should at least perform an internal investigation, to assess whether Pieper's position can be maintained.

I study CS at the University of Twente. Yeah, Pieper is a bit of joke here, I've heard people refer to Sloot (Dutch for ditch) & Pieper (Dutch for potato) as "the people who could store a byte in a bit".
Pieper isn't a proper professor, he's just a PR front. He doesn't actually do anything but give the occasional nonsensical visionary lecture. The only reason why he's associated with this university is because he used to run Philips which is a huge company, research wise.

This whole Sloot deal is embarassing but no big deal.
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