The Source Code (MUST READ)

The Source Code (MUST READ)

Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 08:49

From: Monk

Compression only comes at the cost of variation. Thats just how compression works, the patterns are what gets compressed, all that is outside the compression patterns has to be sored without compression.

In theory you could even make a doom clome with bump mapping in 64k

Here is one at 96k

http://www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger.html
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 09:07

From: OpinionatedCyborg

The question why industry heads would get behind this was raised, and the answer's simple: when supposedly new technology comes around, you get behind it as quickly as possible. These industry heads had a tech demo, a crackpot explanation to work off of, and nothing more. By investing a relatively small amount on an unproven, yet potentially revolution idea, they're safeguarding their own interests. If the idea fails, whoops. If it does, you're in the money. If a revolutionary product presents itself, it's a good idea to be in on it--even if it fails, you aren't much worse off.
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 09:08

From: Dilbert

Silver wrote:
But everyone, tell me, HOW do people like Pieper, Wang and Philips and CA scientists fall for a crackpot trick?

Have you ever heard of the "dot com" era? Supposedly smart people fell for all kinds of shit, and they even threw money away on stupid ideas!

Compression is the result of mapping the contents of one set of data to the contents of another, smaller set of data. As others have eloquently pointed out, the level of compression being claimed is utterly absurd.

(By the way, your little "GAYMING AGE" crack was noted and not appreciated.)
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 09:09

From: Dsal

As Wolfram pointed out in his unnecessarily large and mostly boring book "A New Kind of Science", things of very high complexity can be described by small rulesets (like 4 logical operations) given small inputs (as small as 2 bits)... and enough free memory to output to of course.

Perhaps this guy figured out some way to find the right rulesets and input bits to break down large blocks of bits into self contained procedural cellular automata generators that could be described in a few bits.

Of course, we all know how incredibly hard it would be to do that. That's like solving NP in P time. Chances are it was all bunk. But theoretically, if someone could "reverse procedurally generate" things, you could get crazy crazy compression ratios.
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 09:10

From: Crow

Decoding a movie from a 64kb file is like building a house with 8 bricks.
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 09:11

From: Silver

You know, you may all think I'm retarded, but seriously: if somebody discovers a totally new way of compressing data that no one knows about, of course you think "impossible, retarded". Because if you didn't, you'd be the one working on that code.

I could tell you how it works from what I've read, but I doubt I could explain it well.
The question why industry heads would get behind this was raised, and the answer's simple: when supposedly new technology comes around, you get behind it as quickly as possible. These industry heads had a tech demo, a crackpot explanation to work off of, and nothing more. By investing a relatively small amount on an unproven, yet potentially revolution idea, they're safeguarding their own interests. If the idea fails, whoops. If it does, you're in the money. If a revolutionary product presents itself, it's a good idea to be in on it--even if it fails, you aren't much worse off.

Right. One thing I didn't tell you is that Pieper quit (his multi-million dollar a year position) at Philips to head up Fifth Force.
Compression is the result of mapping the contents of one set of data to the contents of another, smaller set of data. As others have eloquently pointed out, the level of compression being claimed is utterly absurd.

Point taken. Now read up on how Sloot's technology worked, then come back to criticize.

For the record: Pieper gained complete control of Fifth Force, Inc. and the company still exists today, because the real code still hasn't been found. Sloot claimed that it was somewhere in a vault, but no one knows. Sloot was also a heart patient. He was not murdered. He was under pressure, had just travelled through the US with Pieper and died at a bad time. Still, if his story was bullshit... talk about going out with a bang.
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 09:12

From: Hitokage

As Wolfram pointed out in his unnecessarily large and mostly boring book "A New Kind of Science", things of very high complexity can be described by small rulesets (like 4 logical operations) given small inputs (as small as 2 bits)... and enough free memory to output to of course.

Comments about Wolfram's unoriginality and hyperbole aside, even if you did find such a construct for a desired pattern, you'd still have to define what output was useful and what is to be discarded.
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 09:17

From: Xabre

If anyone can figure this shit out then good on you -

http://www.endlesscompression.com/
Jan Sloot's principle looks like that of Klaus Holtz with the different that Sloot made a fixed static reference memory with all the unique data already in, while Holtz made it dynamic as a self learning system, also was Sloot final output key only 1Kb in size. As written in the book "De broncode" Sloot used 5 algorithms where he needed 12Mb for each algorithm what included storage for temporary calculation. He was working on a new application what needed 74Mb for each algorithm to store the temporary calculations for longer movie/TV programs, probably to store the bigger amount of frame keys after the 1Kb input key was decoded. The advantage of Sloot system was that it was possible; to add in every electronic device the processors with the algorithm included the reference memory and memory for the temporary calculations storage. After that only a one 1Kb key code for every movie or TV program was needed to generate the frames for displaying it at a display device.

Let's say one movie/program frame is 1024x640=655,360pixels
According to Jan Sloot second patent:
One block is 16x16=256 pixels
And 64 blocks are one row
Then there are 655,360/256=2,560 blocks in a frame
And 655,360/(256*64)=40 rows in a frame

If there are 25 frames a second and a movie is 90 minutes then:
There are 655,360x25x60x90=88,473,600,000 pixels in a movie/program
88,473,600,000/256=345,600,000 blocks in a movie/program
88,473,600,000/64=5,400,000 rows in a movie/program
88,473,600,000/38.125=135,000 frames in a movie/program


Figure 3 explanation:

30 reference memory contains all possible pixel values (colour values 256 or 2560 or 102400)
31 1st (de)coding part(*) compares every decoded pixel value with the reference memory (30)
32 pixel memory store pixel codes, 256 pixel values stored
33 2nd (de)coding part generate a block code from 256 pixels
34 block memory store block codes, 64 block values stored
35 3rd (de)coding part generate a row code from 64 blocks
36 row memory store row codes, 40(**) row values stored
37 4th (de)coding part generate a frame code from 40(**) rows
38 frame memory store frame codes, 135.000(***) frame values stored
39 5th (de)coding part generate a movie/program code from 135.000(***) frames
40 movie/program memory store movie/program codes, 1Kb each

* Also digital video signal input.
** Frame pixel size depended.
*** Frames a second and movie/program length depended.

41 key processor decoding part check if all blocks, rows and frames are only stored once and that in case of double ones only coordinates are stored
42 storage (chip card) keep a copy of the movie/program memory (40) and calculations from the key processor (41)
43 input-output equipment (chip card reader)
44 key processor coding part(*) stores the movie/program code in the movie/program memory (40)

* Also digital video signal output.

In the above example pixels are used but it's also possible with audio or text.
Details about the reference memory storage and the key code algorithms are not explained in this patent description.
If for example a video input pixel is 1byte then for example every coding part (5 in total) must generate an output key 40 times smaller then the input data to end with a 1Kb key.
88,473,600,000bytes/(40x40x40x40x40)=864bytes (without audio).
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 09:18

From: RonaldoSan

"No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer." - Bill Gates

Technology evolves...
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Re: The Source Code (MUST READ)

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » zo 17 okt 2010, 09:19

From: Hitokage

Xabre: Basically it says that you can expect to compress a file to 1/40th its original size, then do it again and get equal results, then do it 2 more times to get a 1kb compressed movie.
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