A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » do 14 okt 2010, 20:35

From: Manao

In what way did you answer my previous post ? Did you find a point you could contradict ? If not, then whatever compressing schemes you could propose, my reasoning would invalidate it. Now that I gave a proof, you either have to proove what you're claiming ( which you don't ) or proove me wrong ( which you didn't ). Any other attempts would be only trolling attempts.

And when will you understand that '139' written as a charecter string ( 3 bytes ) is three times longer that '139' written in hexa decimal ( 0x8b : only one bytes )

Don't you see that you'll have to store your formula ? And that you're greatly underestimating the size such a formula would take to be stored ?

And how can you say such things as "So regarding the above, as the numbers only contain 1s and 0s, even better! How much easier to handle and compress" ???
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » do 14 okt 2010, 20:36

From: Callmeace

@manao

I hoped when I explained my 'approach' to compression I was explaining why what you describe in your post

i.e. "...The false assumption you make in your reasonning is that you claim you can obtain a simple mathematical formula to represent the file. But you never say how you'll write that formula into a file. For example, a very simple formula to code a number N is the following : x = N, which takes as much bits as N to code...."

would not be a problem

It is because the original code is seen as a different number (binary is strung together and seen as a very long number consisting of 1s and 0s)

@stephanV :) the forumla which is only going to have numbers consisting of 1s and 0s should not encounter any problems - what exceptions to the rules could you suggest (for example)?
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » do 14 okt 2010, 20:38

From: Virus

@callmeace

man, you're really hopeless at explaining stuff! :mrgreen:

Anyway, saying "the advanced calculations from years of mathematical thinking which could be employed" or "the mathematical techniques and knowledge would assuredly be complex and advanced" or maybe "I'm sure a man will come on his white horse and will save the world" looks like hot air to me.

No offence intended, but I need something more than hope ;)
So in stage one The formula maps this binary information of the input file as continuous code being a long number consisting only of the digits 1 and 0.

Well, the input sequence is already a binary string made up of 0s and 1s. Using an "one-to-one" function to remap to another binary string is not going to change anything.
Some inputs would be mapped in a string that compresses better, some others not. On average, you'll end up on par... so this step already looks useless ;)

Anyway: please give us a simple example, so we can understand step by step what you want to do with your input sequence. Here's a 6 bytes sequence:

159, 174, 181, 148, 136, 131

translated in binary, this is:

10011111 10101110 10110101 10010100 10001000 10000011

so uncompressed, the input string is 48 bits, as you can see.

Note that the data present correlation (= similarity) between the samples and that means you can compress them. The data looks quite like the luma taken along a row of a video frame, so we're dealing with something real here.

Please shows us your idea and produce an output binary string (shorter than 48 bits, possibly :)). You can do whatever you want, up to and including splitting the string into a couple of pieces to ease your calculations.
Later on I'll show you a very simple and fast way to compress it down, so we can compare the results.
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » do 14 okt 2010, 20:41

From: Callmeace

@Virus :) I can immediately see that my way is not understood (the 1s and 0s are mapped to continuous numbers no spaces), but for now:

Further clarification, I believe some of you will now 'get this'. Here are some of the advantages of the way.

Firstly, surely none of you are going to deny that a weakness of normal methods of compression is that they only perform best with data that they are optimised for. And as some of you mentioned, there is a weakness with some organisations of data - unexpected or unallowed for circumstances etc that will 'foil' the plan.

Do you recall in a previous post when I mentioned that this way of compression doesn't care what data is fed into it? Which is why I say any data will be compressed well with my way. All data is transferred to long numbers of 1s and 0s. Full Stop for now, think about that.

Manao, I can only reiterrate that I'm not arguing over your maths or denying its correctness or whatever, but I will point out that your maths is simply not applicable to my way of compression. Those 'limits' do not apply to it's processes. I urge you (and others) to please get away from traditional ideas and try and understand this new way.

There will be no problems with some data not fitting into the formula accurately or some set of data not being compressible or the problems or limitations that are currently faced. Note - I have mentioned that there will probably be a limit on file input size, vaguely suggested as 4TB, just for the sake of the character string & mapping data fitting into a few KB.

Also, I don't know why you can't see that as the numbers are all multiples of ten and with our without plus one, that this immediately makes it easier for the formula to break down much more? I still think this suggests that people aren't understanding how it works.

We are all here to learn and want to have better technology right? :) I will strive to try and be clearer at explaining, but please be patient! Some of you keep getting hung up on problems that are not going to occur with the concept I mention.
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » do 14 okt 2010, 20:43

From: Manao

I will point out that your maths is simply not applicable to my way of compression

Alright, so you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. If you did, you'd have remarked that my proof was valid for any compression scheme which takes a file as input and gives a file as output.
please get away from traditional ideas and try and understand this new way

Please, it's your only argument is this discussion, and it's not even a valid one, so could you stop repeating it over and over ?
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » do 14 okt 2010, 20:45

From: Callmeace

Manao wrote:
...Alright, so you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. If you did, you'd have remarked that my proof was valid for any compression scheme which takes a file as input and gives a file as output...

Manao, I detect some irritability in your post. I understand that and I don't mind because I can see you haven't understood my explanations.
I can't say any other way than nicely to you though, that your statement above is just not correct "my proof was valid for any compression scheme which takes a file as input and gives a file as output".
In my concept the code is not being compressed 'as code', it is literally being translated to something which is not code but a number. However that number is still unique to the code and meaningful to it. Do you see? The binary digits are strung together (mapped) to make long numbers (no longer being binary code) and these numbers are broken down via maths.

You see, your maths is fine - I don't deny it! But we are approaching compression in a different way where old rules and limitations don't have to apply.

We are all here to learn and make things better so I hope there is no hostility over a misunderstanding :)
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » do 14 okt 2010, 20:47

From: Virus

Callmeace wrote:
The binary digits are strung together (mapped) to make long numbers (no longer being binary code) and these numbers are broken down via maths.

:roll:

And how the hell are you supposed to work with these "long numbers" on a digital finite state machine like a Pentium-class processor, with binary registers with a finite length, if you don't represent them as a binary sequence?

And how the hell are you supposed to work with your numbers ("break them down via maths") if you can't even manipulate them? Representing exactly a real number requires up to infinite bits!

Seriously, either give a practical example, or shut up. I'm tired of reading these sentences "my way is better, my way has no limits, my way is not traditional, my ideas are new and old approaches don't matter". This is BS at the most irritating level. You can go on forever with that but you won't find any listeners anymore.

If you cared to give an example instead of repeating "my way is better, you don't understand me" over and over and over I would already have torn it in pieces, showing you the practical problems which arise when you finally stop dreaming and start working with something real.
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » do 14 okt 2010, 20:50

From: Manao

In my concept the code is not being compressed 'as code', it is literally being translated to something which is not code but a number

Thank you for making my point. Go read my post, especially (7).
we are approaching compression in a different way where old rules and limitations don't have to apply.

Maths still apply : you're the one using an uber-mathematical compression scheme, and you don't like it when the same maths prove you wrong ?
I detect some irritability in your post.

Indeed, there is some. Because I more and more think you're deliberatly trolling here, and that by doing so, you're misleading other people.
you haven't understood my explanations

But I have. In the other hand, you, obviously, didn't either understand or read mine nor any other explanations given by others.
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » do 14 okt 2010, 20:52

From: StephanV

Callmeace wrote:
I will insert commas here just for clarity, Imagine then that the first block has the number
Block01: 10,010,001,010,011,100
the second has
Block02: 110,101,001,110,101,001

and so on

in this stage it would maybe be that every block is given a multiple or power of ten number and flagged as having plus one or not and a SF number - this is just a suggestion

callmeace, this just doesnt make sense

lets try your way of compressing on the first block (at least in the way i understand you, if not you should correct me.

first we would need to define how many bits we need for all our characters:

we have all numbers ---> 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
a sign for 10^ ---> *
a sign to add 1 ---> +

so we have 12 signs and thus we need 4 bits for each character in our string.

the first thing i see as a power of ten is 100 so that would become , *2 (10^2), continuing like this we get:

*2*3*1*3+1*2 (if i didnt make a mistake somewhere)

so we have 12 characters and thus need 48 bits to store 17... thats not compression.

of course you will say i got it all wrong and i dont understand you, but now you give a better example then.

stay away from vague terms like "advanced maths", that doesnt mean anything. we cant use maths that doesnt excist (yet) and neither can we make any true statements about such maths.
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » do 14 okt 2010, 20:52

From: R6d2

I really don't see why Manao, Virus and others just don't see the brilliance of callmeace's ideas. I just fed his posts through the latest version of Turing's Natural Language interpreter (look it up at the Magic Forum) and it created an output which is an algorythm that works!

In fact, I just compressed LOTR (the three movies) and stored them on my 128-MB pendrive. In fact I'm playing them back right now on my 7" HDTV. Quality is awesome!
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