An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Re: An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Beitragvon Chris_Geurts » Mi 20 Okt 2010, 10:05

From: ?SYNTAX ERROR

I heard from this one from a bloke at the pub who swore that it happened to his friend's cousin and it is absolutely true:

A United States aircraft carrier is approaching the waters off New Zealand, when a blip appears on their radar screen. They get on the radio and say:

"This is the USS Nimitz, please veer 20 degrees starboard".

The answer comes back: "No, you veer 20 degrees port!".

The American Admiral is a little upset with this and takes over the microphone, "This is the USS Nimitz, we reccommend that you veer 20 degrees starboard!".

Again the answer comes back: "No! You veer 20 degrees to port!".

Finally the Admiral loses his temper and says: "This is the USS Nimitz, a United States warship, we strongly recommend that you veer 20 degrees starboard now!"

The answer comes back: "Well, this is a lighthouse, your call!".
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Re: An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Beitragvon Chris_Geurts » Mi 20 Okt 2010, 10:06

From: The Dark Prince

@tnt:

I agree with you that this is most likely a load of bollocks, but here's a thought for you.

If you were to use a chaotic series (ie: 2x^2 - 1, with x starting between 0 and 1), you could theoretically get a series of that would have a unique run through all numbers in the long double format or even longer if you felt like increasing the core (the mantissa isn't going to be much use for this compression, in fact you may as well remove it and use a fixed point system). so you could make a fair amount of movies based on a library of chaos functions (polynomials, trigonometric functions, exponentials, etd), and a starting point to get massive compression indeed.

Of course finding an algorithm to optimise this is an absolute nightmare :D
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Re: An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Beitragvon Chris_Geurts » Mi 20 Okt 2010, 10:08

From: Unrealfragmaster

?SYNTAX ERROR wrote:
I heard from this one from a bloke at the pub who swore that it happened to his friend's cousin and it is absolutely true:

A United States aircraft carrier is approaching the waters off New Zealand, when a blip appears on their radar screen. They get on the radio and say:

"This is the USS Nimitz, please veer 20 degrees starboard".

The answer comes back: "No, you veer 20 degrees port!".

The American Admiral is a little upset with this and takes over the microphone, "This is the USS Nimitz, we reccommend that you veer 20 degrees starboard!".

Again the answer comes back: "No! You veer 20 degrees to port!".

Finally the Admiral loses his temper and says: "This is the USS Nimitz, a United States warship, we strongly recommend that you veer 20 degrees starboard now!"

The answer comes back: "Well, this is a lighthouse, your call!".

That isn't true. That also exists in a funnier Irish/British version:
This is the transcript of the ACTUAL radio conversation between the British and the Irish, off the coast of Kerry, Oct 98. Radio conversation released by the Chief of Naval Operations 10-10-01:

IRISH: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the South, to avoid a collision.

BRITISH: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the North, to avoid a collision.

IRISH: Negative. You will have to divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

BRITISH: This is the Captain of a British navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.

IRISH: Negative. I say again, You will have to divert YOUR course.

BRITISH: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER HMS BRITANNIA! THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN THE BRITISH ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS, AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH, I SAY AGAIN, THAT IS 15 DEGREES NORTH, OR COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.

IRISH: We are a lighthouse. Your call.
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Re: An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Beitragvon Chris_Geurts » Mi 20 Okt 2010, 10:09

From: Half-Saint

No, no, no.. this is the ONLY real version :D

This is based on an actual radio conversation between a U.S. Navy Aircraft carrier (U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln) and Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. (The radio conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on 10/10/95 authorized by the Freedom of Information Act.)

Canadians: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid collision.

Americans: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.

Canadians: Negative. You will have to divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.

Canadians: No, I say again, you divert YOUR course.

Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH--I SAY AGAIN, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH--OR COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.

Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.
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Re: An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Beitragvon Chris_Geurts » Mi 20 Okt 2010, 10:13

From: Retro Trash

TNT wrote:
Zorrero wrote:
For 20 years he has worked day and night on a little box that would be able to play 64 full length movies from a 64 kB chip.

That makes one kilobyte per movie. That's 8192 bits. If we take a two hour movie with 25 frames per second, that makes 2*3600*25 or 180000 frames, so single frame must be compressed into less than 0.05 bits in average.

Another take: If we have only 256 different frames we can compress one frame per byte, with 25 fps one kilobyte is enough for 1024/25 or 41 seconds.

In other words: I don't believe it.

Who said anything about compression?

Jan Sloot wrote:

I don't believe it's possible to save for example a piece of video with a compression technique with less than 100 kB (1 sec. requires at least 1 MB, so 90 min. requires 5400 MB). After years of experimenting i've managed to - without use of compression techniques - write all types of data on a medium of 128 kB max. and to play it back without loss of quality and speed (every bit will be read exactly as it was written). Every data type (image, sound, text) will be coded to a key containing n kB. Giving this key to a program which can decode this key at enormous speed to the exact same information in which it was coded.

I can go into further detail, but I have no time right now. It has to do with algorithms like The Dark Prince said. A chip containing a key with data and a memory containing algorithms.

For all Dutch fellow members: watch Netwerk tomorrow (sunday 12-9-04) on Ned. 1 at 20.15 for part 2 of this story.
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Re: An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Beitragvon Chris_Geurts » Mi 20 Okt 2010, 10:17

From: TNT

Zorrero wrote:
Jan Sloot wrote:

After years of experimenting i've managed to - without use of compression techniques - write all types of data on a medium of 128 kB max. and to play it back without loss of quality and speed (every bit will be read exactly as it was written).

comp.compression FAQ, section 9.2 - The counting argument. Well, read 9.1 - Introduction as well.
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Re: An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Beitragvon Chris_Geurts » Mi 20 Okt 2010, 10:17

From: White Flame

Considering the counting argument, that the "compressed movie" is a keyed algorithm, and that 16 keys fit in 64k, that would mean that this algorithm can play any one of 256^4096 (1.415*10^9864) different video streams. Just for reference, the width of the visible universe in units of electron widths is somewhere around 10^40. That's quite a search space for the compressor to try to match, so I really couldn't imagine how long a compressor of this nature would take. This guy would have needed access to absolutely top-of-the-line supercomputers to compress these videos. Whether that's a big enough search space to be able to play back any movie that you compress into it, though... that's where the counting argument comes in, and I don't know the answer to that. It's a really big number, but movies have a *lot* of data.

I made a compressor that usually chops .zip files in half, but it takes about a week to compress a 2k file on my PC, due to it perfoming an exhaustive search on a large search space (not nearly as big as 256^4096 though). If Moore's law continues as is, it'll still take millenia to be able to compress a 1gig file in less than an hour.

Just thought of something else: Maybe he didn't use video files as input and compressed them. Perhaps it was like demo code, where it generated a cool-looking movie. Also, the decompression algorithm was probably very specific to movies, so it probably wouldn't do nearly as well compressing arbitrary data files.

This is all assuming that this tale is true...

I've always held on to the belief that if you're going up against giant established "we will get our money" sort of organizations, don't sit there trying to patent your secret tech and make money off your inventions thinking that you'll overcome the big evil corps. You'll die, and your tech will die with you. Shut up about it, finish it, then release it freely.
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Re: An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Beitragvon Chris_Geurts » Mi 20 Okt 2010, 10:19

From: The Dark Prince

It has to do with algorithms like The Dark Prince said.

Heyyyy, that's not quite true. I actually think this is impossible, 64k is just not enough to store that sort of information on.

All I was doing was pointing out a possible method of shrinking data. Even with my method, assuming you used a 28 bit fixed point system (the other 4 bits select the function to be used), you could never get anywhere near as much information on 64kb. 64mb may be possible, but with the ease of manufacture of storage space and the relative time taken to compress the data that thoroughly, the real question is would it be worth it?
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Re: An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Beitragvon Chris_Geurts » Mi 20 Okt 2010, 10:20

From: Retro Trash

I saw some really interesting feedback (and some complete bollocks). Some of you guys really know a lot about compression. But the technique Sloot used was not by compression. Algorithms play a major role though (but like he later said, not in the way Dark Prince stated) and are stored on processor hardware.

There's not much I can say to convince anyone. It's just too revolutionary. Scientists said "this can't be done". It has to be seen to be believed. When Einstein presented his formula he was declared a fool, because with it he threw all physics laws - for example Newton's - out the window. Sloots code proves compression is pointless.

Of course I could be wrong. But then it would be one big conspiracy by a lot of (prominent) people. They would have staged all this and lied. I don't see to what point...
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Re: An incredible invention: 'The Source Code'

Beitragvon Chris_Geurts » Mi 20 Okt 2010, 10:22

From: -[ SteG ]-

So did anybody catch this tv program about this 'miracle' in mpg (or similar) format ?

Or anybody seen a torrent for it ?
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