A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » vr 15 okt 2010, 06:01

From: FccHandler

Joe Fenton wrote:
The prof writes 2 + 2 on the board, then in the next step writes 4

:? 2 + 2 = 4?

Nonsense. 2 is a prime number, and 4 is a perfect square. Besides, quantum theory would never allow that.
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » vr 15 okt 2010, 06:13

From: Virus

FccHandler wrote:
Egad, I'm still wrestling with these numbers, trying to derive a simple equation. That shows you what a pathetic geek I am ;).

...and also what a pathetic algorithm you're using ;)
That number is evenly divisible by 359, which gives 489,060,500,101. But is that a prime?

Hints are not allowed...! :mrgreen:
But anyway, here's mine: if you multiply a number that takes M bits with one that takes N bits, your result requires up to M+N bits... now try to find prime factors of a number that takes M+N=48 bits... ;)
@Virus, you're an evil dude. :)

Not only I'm evil, but I can also shrink that sequence down to 39 bits using a trivial algorithm that uses just a few clock cycles per byte.

:)

Virus
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » vr 15 okt 2010, 06:14

From: FccHandler

Virus wrote:
I can also shrink that sequence down to 39 bits using a trivial algorithm that uses just a few clock cycles per byte.

I don't doubt it. But you won't get a movie to fit in 64K using that algorithm either. ;)
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » vr 15 okt 2010, 06:15

From: MrTVideo

Thats the first I heard of that, most interesting. Just to throw a another slant. There are other types of computers, Analog for instance and lets not forget what we have on our shoulders. I believe we store in pattens and even I have more cells than any computer made, shame I cannot recall digitally. So when I went over this thread I get the feeling that this box of his was indeed an alternative memory device "Programed to store and play movies". Which we do in dreams. Don't make sense but movies just the same and in colour. I said I would like to throw a slant
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » vr 15 okt 2010, 06:17

From: Callmeace

Virus wrote:
A few quotes from Callmeace:

So, maths is advanced, maths is powerful, maths is needed to build this "algorithm", yet it doesn't need to apply. Looks a bit strange to me...

;) The maths that needn't apply is that which has been used by many of you to 'prove' the impossibility of my compression claims. Selectively quoting me so as to misrepresent the context in which those quotes were originally posted is rather naughty virus but no hard feelings ;)

I have been working on a post which will help most of you understand.

To give stephanV some answers in the meanwhile:
with my way you wouldn't have to store all the information at each stage you only tell it what to do with the result. Example: lets say you have the input. We know it is going to be seen as blocks of numbers which must be a multiple of ten with or without +1. Lets say we break the blocks down to what adds up to each number. You don't have to store this number becaused it's only used while the formula is running. Each step generates the content to be processed by the next step (either way through the formula). In other words, the point none of you seem to understand - you don't have to store the contents of the input file in my way, I'm not using normal methods there is not any 'magic' compression. I have said this before.
When you have your end character string the original file can be built back up in stages through the formula - each result being processed in the next step.

I await more ridicule, but either way I will get an explanatory post finished which tries to give an overall concept view of how it might work.
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » vr 15 okt 2010, 06:18

From: Duartix

Hey! I can't compress "top models" to less than 10 bytes. :(
Oh s**t! I forgot "top models" are already fully zipped! :)
Wouldn't mind unziping one, though! 8-) :mrgreen:
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » vr 15 okt 2010, 06:19

From: MrTVideo

Callmeace your theory makes sense in as far as the 64k(if I get your drift) holds the formular and the assembly code to dissasemble and then reassemble for input and output. But is'ent that just a "codec" anyway, where the actual information is kept in in another location.?
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » vr 15 okt 2010, 06:20

From: Gldblade

I think your basic idea is that given a set of data, you can represent it with a smaller set of data that can be used to reconstruct the original data. Then you hope to perform multiple passes, each time needing less and less data to represent previous passes, in the end reaching an extremely small file size.

Based upon this synopsis, you will require an algorithm that satisfies two requirements: it can indefinitely reduce filesize, it is completely reversible.

I believe that you stated it was up to math to find such an algorithm. However, I will state that it is ignorance that suggests that such an algorithm exists in the first place. My rudimentary understanding of information theory suggests that such a process cannot possibly exist, and if you believe otherwise, please prove it by locating such an algorithm. Then proceed to contact the many information theory scientists across the globe to tell them that their decades of research is wrong.

*EDIT*
Just to clarify, you can come up with an algorithm that can indefinitely reduce filesize (approximately at least, you can't get down below 1 bit). You can come up with an algorithm that is reversible. But you can't come up with an algorithm that can do both.

The reason is that reducing filesize intrinsically loses information. You can have lossless compression up to a certain (mathematically proven) limit using various tricks, afterwards lossy compression is required to further decrease filesize. Since information is lost in the process, you cannot fully reconstruct previous data. With each pass, more and more information would be lost, meaning less and less of the original data.

For example, let's take an algorithm where you merely divide by 10 and round.

123456
12346
1235
124
12
1

Information is clearly lost with each iteration such that one would have less and less hope of reconstructing the original data the more iterations you run.

You may claim that there is an algorithm out there somewhere that will somehow meet both requirements of indefinite filesize reduction and full reversibility. Once again, I would state that this is due to a lack of understanding on the limits of mathematics.

An alternative approach to having a single algorithm is to have multiple formulas that will each individually reduce the size of the data, which is probably one of the ideas that you were trying to get across.

For example,

120, formula: divide by 5
24, formula: divide by 4
6, formula: divide by 3
2, formula: divide by 2
1

In which case, if you knew every single formula in the chain, you could theoretically reduce the orignal data to a very small filesize. However, even this approach has some major issues. First, will these formulas be predetermined, or will they be generated on the fly?

If the formulas are predetermined, then the process can only represent a *very* limited subset of data. For example, the chain above cannot represent a starting value of 121. Therefore, to be practical, the formulas would need to be generated on the fly.

However, how then do you tell the decoder what to do with the end data? You would need to store the formula chain somehow, probably alongside the processed data that you will use to reconstruct the original data. But then have you really reduced the filesize? Doesn't the storage of the formula chain count towards the filesize? If you take this into account, I think you will realize that this imposes a significant limit on your compression efficiency, and may even exact a severe penalty in some cases. Using the example above, storage of the number 120 requires only 8 bits. Storage of the number 1, along with the formula chain, would require many more than that.

I must applaud anyone who read through all of this. I can't believe I actually wrote this much considering its 4:25 in the morning. I must apologize for lack of coherency anywhere :P
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » vr 15 okt 2010, 06:22

From: MrTVideo

No if its possible at all then it would be necessary to start backwards 64000 bytes each byte how many bits ( lets give ourselves a chance say 32) so we have 64000 x 32 bits of information to work with
so how could that array of bits be used to store one movie say a 4.7 gig mpeg2 already heavily compressed. Here is where, if it can be believed that it was done at all. obviously not by compression algorithms but what?. Consider a movie of 4.7 gig 4,700,000,000 explained in 64000x32 = 2,048,000
which would be a compression ratio of 4,700,000,000/2,048,000
229,492:1 I think again that if it was done at all you would have to ask how much information could be stored. Even if some form of look up table was used that would have to be stored external.

I think turning water into wine would be easier. wait a bit I brew my own beer. I use water add flavour add sugar and after a bit drink it.
Nothing is impossible
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Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » vr 15 okt 2010, 06:22

From: Gldblade

@MrTVideo

Sorry, I was talking to callmeace :P I don't think what he is proposing is possible
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