A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » wo 13 okt 2010, 14:48

From: Neo Neko

Avih wrote:
analog calculations might have something, but analog value can be represented pretty good with few bits ("few" depends on the resolution you actually need, and the problem domain. typically though, 64 bits would be enough for most range-limited analog values. without getting into account errors that sum-up due to quantization of the values, but also not taking into account the naturall inaccuracy of analog values)

You make it sound as if analog is somehow less accurate than digital. It isn't. The only thing Digital has over Analog is it's error resilliance. Other than that Digital quantization tends to be innacurate and innefficient in comparison. For a limited example of how analog can improve transmission/storrage etc look at modems. Part of the use of analog is out of necessity because of the medium. But rather than just sticking with trying to make the analog signal mimic the digital signal as close as it can, techniques like QAM have become common. QAM takes advantage of analogs nature. Using several discrete voltages to represent up to 256 different values. My digital cable box and cable modem both use 256 QAM. That's lossless compression of about 4:1. 4 digital values represented by 1 analog value. Which in and of itself is nothing to sneeze at. If this were further extended from the realm of transmission and storrage to psychovisual/acoustic compression algorythms and general computation who is to say we would not see a similar efficiency increase?
Avih wrote:
regarding elementary memory elements that are not binary (i.e. each basic element represents 4/5/8/16/whatever descrete values), not much to gain, as all it would save is the space that the momory consumes (whether it be silicon or ano other matter). so u get 1/8 the size for the same memory. "big deal" (at least in our context).

Actually that seems like a rather big deal to me. The best lossless codecs etc generally don't do better than halving the bitrate required to represent the original stream. And at the cost of sometimes demanding computations. Here we are talking about a reduction in size that is 4 times greater while still being lossless. And at the same time being far less computationally taxing etc. That would be a huge boon! If you were then able to craft a lossless codec that were able to losslessly describe the original with half the bitrate using our new coding system that already reduces the size by to 1/8. Why you would have a lossless compression to 1/16th the original size! That is massive! That is about the equivalent of what MP2 and MP3 provide in a lossy way. Only losslessly. In my context that is downright monumental. :P
Avih wrote:
the issue was rather if at all such algorithm could exist (well, it depends on the input imo, for some inputs it might, for others, not. as someone mentioned, it depends on the inherent entropy of the input). using more states/cell will only make it compute better (=faster or on smaller base die).

Actually computing with more base states to me looks to have the same advantage no matter what the entropy. At least in the base sense. Then there is the possibility that it would further benefit everything else. Including entropy based encoding etc. :)
Avatar gebruiker
Johan1951
 
Berichten: 3752
Geregistreerd: di 31 aug 2010, 17:04

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » wo 13 okt 2010, 14:49

From: Int 21h

LordRPI wrote:
...As some of you might have realized, the non digitalness of computer microprocessors have caused Intel and IBM to fall behind Moore's law on grounds of excessive wire delay caused by slowing speeds due to the resistivity of modern interconnects...

You posted the same thing on the DivX forums a few months ago, and I am inclined to disagree.

The reason Intel and IBM are falling behind on Moore's law is due to heat dissipation problems. Limits due to the resitivity of modern interconnects will not happen for another decade or so...
Avatar gebruiker
Johan1951
 
Berichten: 3752
Geregistreerd: di 31 aug 2010, 17:04

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » wo 13 okt 2010, 14:50

From: Phoenyx

Could I point out one thing? Think of a program that can create an infinitely complex picture using a single equation. Fractal compressors are even now being worked on. There was a mathemetician (sp?) (and I don't remember his name) that said that an image of photographic quality could be encoded using about 10k of equations and 500k of base data. As I remember (could be wrong) that was supposed to be a 1200dpi equivalent 16 million color picture.
Avatar gebruiker
Johan1951
 
Berichten: 3752
Geregistreerd: di 31 aug 2010, 17:04

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » wo 13 okt 2010, 14:51

From: RadicalEd

Avih wrote:
well, if we could only write down the parameters of the universe right after the big bang, we could have done it though. we would only need then a large and fast enough memory and a fast enough computer to calculate the state of the universe at any given time. then we could have calculated (by prediction) the demonstration that took place, its content (= the films), and hey, we could have even predicted the actual 64K that he used to compress the data :)

Only if the universe is deterministic, of course, which is currently up in the air according to quantum physics :mrgreen:
Avatar gebruiker
Johan1951
 
Berichten: 3752
Geregistreerd: di 31 aug 2010, 17:04

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » wo 13 okt 2010, 14:52

From: Neo Neko

Aaaaah yes. The old cat in the box trick. Yor task is to determine whether the cat is alive or dead. A quantum theorist would postulate that there is a 50/50 chance at any one time that the cat is dead. An average person would just go over and look inside the box. At which point the quantum theoris would go off on a rant about how they ruined the result by observing it. :P
Avatar gebruiker
Johan1951
 
Berichten: 3752
Geregistreerd: di 31 aug 2010, 17:04

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » wo 13 okt 2010, 14:52

From: RadicalEd

Real determinism would make the universe so much simpler IMO. Unfortunately, you get people like Heisenburg ruining it with their uncertainty principles. All in all, it comes down to whether or not quantum systems are just too complex for us to currently predict or if there truly are random factors involved (or the more boring possibility that some things are just physically impossible for us to ever predict -- enter Heisenburg). A good TOE should solve this problem, and of course we're still waiting on that one...
Avatar gebruiker
Johan1951
 
Berichten: 3752
Geregistreerd: di 31 aug 2010, 17:04

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » wo 13 okt 2010, 14:53

From: Mug Funky

i'm kinda glad there's no determinism to speak of.

means we get some kind of free will...
Avatar gebruiker
Johan1951
 
Berichten: 3752
Geregistreerd: di 31 aug 2010, 17:04

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » wo 13 okt 2010, 14:54

From: Didée

Neo Neko wrote:
Aaaaah yes. The old cat in the box trick. Yor task is to determine whether the cat is alive or dead. A quantum theorist would postulate that there is a 50/50 chance at any one time that the cat is dead.

No, that's not what the quantum theorist would postulate.
There is not a 50/50 chance that the cat is dead. According to quantum mechanics, the cat is 50% dead, and 50% alive.

Another one:
Assume a tree is falling in a forest, but miles and miles around there is no living being present that could hear something.
Does the tree make some noise when it falls, or does it fall in perfect silence?

And Mug ... your fate is determined for every single moment. But nonetheless, you do have a free will. In fact this is not a contradiction in terms.
Avatar gebruiker
Johan1951
 
Berichten: 3752
Geregistreerd: di 31 aug 2010, 17:04

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » wo 13 okt 2010, 14:55

From: StephanV

Didée wrote:
No, that's not what the quantum theorist would postulate.
There is not a 50/50 chance that the cat is dead. According to quantum mechanics, the cat is 50% dead, and 50% alive.

That's not completely correct either, there is no such thing as 50% dead or 50% alive. The cat is just both dead and alive untill its state is made an observation, after which it turns out to be either one. :)
Avatar gebruiker
Johan1951
 
Berichten: 3752
Geregistreerd: di 31 aug 2010, 17:04

Re: A man claims to store multiple movies on 64kb

Berichtdoor Johan1951 » wo 13 okt 2010, 14:56

From: Didée

Ah, an expert 8-)

Yep, correct - seems I was caught in a rush of 50's while typing ...

So, what about the tree?
Avatar gebruiker
Johan1951
 
Berichten: 3752
Geregistreerd: di 31 aug 2010, 17:04

VorigeVolgende

Keer terug naar Doom9's Forum (0105)

cron